A former Minister of Transport, Ebenezer Babatope
has made his views known on the President
Muhammadu Buhari’s plan to probe the
administration of his predecessor, Goodluck
Jonathan.
Speaking in an interview with The Punch, Babatope
enthused that Jonathan is not the corrupt person he
is being made to look like.
Babatope, who is also a member of the Peoples
Democratic Party (PDP) Board of Trustees (BoT) also
posited that the PDP was not against the president’s
probe but were only against bias and witch hunting.
The Peoples Democratic Party has said the probes
being carried out by the President Muhammadu
Buhari-led administration are selective. Why are
they?
Any government is free to transact any business it
wants to transact. So, Buhari is correct to say he
wants to probe. But all that we are saying is that he
must ensure that the probe is not coloured with
injustice, bias and unfairness. Once he can do that,
let him go ahead. He has not unfolded the
programme; when he unfolds the programme, we
will know.
If he has decided to probe only the last
administration, does it have any shortcomings?
He has the choice on whoever he wants to probe. If
he wants to limit it to the Jonathan administration,
he has the freedom. But what is important is that the
probe must be free and must not be done against
those that they want to persecute or humiliate
because of their political affiliation. Nobody can
question whatever method Buhari’s administration
wants to use. It is his government and it is in his best
interest to ensure that his government meets the
yearnings and aspirations of Nigerians. If he says he
wants to probe the administration of GEJ (Goodluck
Ebele Jonathan) alone, that is good for him but all we
know is that he must endeavour not to turn the
probe into a kind of witch-hunt. This is why we are
appealing that he should allow justice and fair play to
characterise all the exercises that will be carried out
on the probe. I don’t care who wants to probe; he can
probe anybody he wants to probe but at the end of
the day, he should be careful not to endanger or
destroy the integrity of innocent people.
With what you have seen or heard so far, does
the campaign look like a witch-hunt?
I cannot substantiate the witch-hunt claim now, even
though the civil servants that were said to be having
their property confiscated by the government have
raised their voices to say they did not do (commit)
anything (crime). I want President Buhari to ensure
that the security agencies do very thorough job, and
should not do a hush-hush job that will amount to
nothing but witch-hunt. We are waiting for when they
will start to see or hear the names of those who are
now being called looters. As it is now, almost every
Nigerian is a looter unless you are proven not to be a
looter.
Would you have called for the extension of the
probe to the administrations before Jonathan’s,
especially those widely believed to have been
very corrupt, if you had your way?
I am not a supporter, really, of what is called probe.
Our leader, my benefactor, the late Chief Obafemi
Awolowo, warned against a country getting itself into
the mess of probing; that there would be no end to
it. That was why he said the current administration
should erect a thick wall between the events of the
past administration and the present. That he would
rather strengthen the Nigeria Police to ensure that it
is mobile enough to do its job properly; to arrest and
prosecute. All we are saying is that the Economic and
Financial Crimes Commission, the Independent
National Electoral Commission, the Police and all
other agencies who are to help the government must
do their job well, bring culprits to book and ensure
that they bring those guilty of looting to book.
But is it appropriate for a new government not to
check the books of the previous administration,
especially when government coffers have been
looted?
At the end of the day, I hope that this probe on
corruption will not end up being a mere illusion;
when you say somebody has looted but establishing
the looting is very difficult. Nobody is saying it is not
good for the country to fight corruption, all we are
saying – and I want to repeat it – is that in
establishing new morality for Nigeria, we must not
cast away justice and fair play in the manner we
investigate all the cases. If we do so, we will subject
Nigeria to a state of irredeemable despair, and that
will be very bad for us.
What then is your take on Prof. Ben Nwabueze’s
stance that certain administrations recorded
corruption of threatening magnitude should be
probed, especially those led by former military
Heads of State, Ibrahim Babangida, Abdulsalami
Abubakar and former President Olusegun
Obasanjo?
I am very convinced that no amount of probes on
Jonathan will establish that Jonathan was a corrupt
leader. He was not a corrupt leader. That is why I am
proposing fairness and justice in this probe. Jonathan
is not going to be found guilty of anything; I am
telling you the fact. And if he (Buhari) says he wants
to extend his probe to other regimes, it will be
ridiculous. That was why Awolowo said any nation that
goes deep into the ‘probe-probe business;’ that
nation is jeopardising the future of its citizens
because it can never get to an end. That was why
Awolowo said he would erect a thick wall between
the events of the past and of the present. All we
need to do is to strengthen the Police. That is all.
If you think Jonathan was not corrupt and will be
off the hook, would you admit that he had people
whose activities should be probed around him?
If they are found guilty, they should be brought to
book. But the way it is going; one governor was on
the entourage of President Buhari to America, he
came back and told Nigerians that one minister
(under Jonathan) stole $6bn. This is a ridiculous thing
to say. $6bn! We are talking of stones; we are talking
of hard currency. All these comments are really
making fun of what President Buhari is trying to do.
Let them base their probes on concrete facts. It is
not possible for a minister of any country to steal
N6bn and stash it away in foreign banks. Which bank
can accommodate that? Any of the banks that aid
corruption abroad will be hesitant to take that kind of
money. I know very well that Buhari’s probe will help
us in this country but trying to implicate people who
are innocent will be bad for Nigeria.
The PDP also said President Buhari should look
inwards and prosecute corrupt persons in the All
Progressives Congress and among those close to
him to set an example. Does this really matter?
Of course (it does)! It will be foolhardy for anyone to
think that there are no corrupt people in the APC.
They also ran government (at the state level) either
as Action Congress of Nigeria or any other party
(before their merger). The PDP was right to say ‘place
your binoculars of corruption probe on your men in
the APC.’
Must the probe start from within the APC?
It can start from anywhere but make sure that you do
a thorough job. If the leaders of the APC are said to
be corrupt and you are investigating them, do a
thorough job.
has made his views known on the President
Muhammadu Buhari’s plan to probe the
administration of his predecessor, Goodluck
Jonathan.
Speaking in an interview with The Punch, Babatope
enthused that Jonathan is not the corrupt person he
is being made to look like.
Babatope, who is also a member of the Peoples
Democratic Party (PDP) Board of Trustees (BoT) also
posited that the PDP was not against the president’s
probe but were only against bias and witch hunting.
The Peoples Democratic Party has said the probes
being carried out by the President Muhammadu
Buhari-led administration are selective. Why are
they?
Any government is free to transact any business it
wants to transact. So, Buhari is correct to say he
wants to probe. But all that we are saying is that he
must ensure that the probe is not coloured with
injustice, bias and unfairness. Once he can do that,
let him go ahead. He has not unfolded the
programme; when he unfolds the programme, we
will know.
If he has decided to probe only the last
administration, does it have any shortcomings?
He has the choice on whoever he wants to probe. If
he wants to limit it to the Jonathan administration,
he has the freedom. But what is important is that the
probe must be free and must not be done against
those that they want to persecute or humiliate
because of their political affiliation. Nobody can
question whatever method Buhari’s administration
wants to use. It is his government and it is in his best
interest to ensure that his government meets the
yearnings and aspirations of Nigerians. If he says he
wants to probe the administration of GEJ (Goodluck
Ebele Jonathan) alone, that is good for him but all we
know is that he must endeavour not to turn the
probe into a kind of witch-hunt. This is why we are
appealing that he should allow justice and fair play to
characterise all the exercises that will be carried out
on the probe. I don’t care who wants to probe; he can
probe anybody he wants to probe but at the end of
the day, he should be careful not to endanger or
destroy the integrity of innocent people.
With what you have seen or heard so far, does
the campaign look like a witch-hunt?
I cannot substantiate the witch-hunt claim now, even
though the civil servants that were said to be having
their property confiscated by the government have
raised their voices to say they did not do (commit)
anything (crime). I want President Buhari to ensure
that the security agencies do very thorough job, and
should not do a hush-hush job that will amount to
nothing but witch-hunt. We are waiting for when they
will start to see or hear the names of those who are
now being called looters. As it is now, almost every
Nigerian is a looter unless you are proven not to be a
looter.
Would you have called for the extension of the
probe to the administrations before Jonathan’s,
especially those widely believed to have been
very corrupt, if you had your way?
I am not a supporter, really, of what is called probe.
Our leader, my benefactor, the late Chief Obafemi
Awolowo, warned against a country getting itself into
the mess of probing; that there would be no end to
it. That was why he said the current administration
should erect a thick wall between the events of the
past administration and the present. That he would
rather strengthen the Nigeria Police to ensure that it
is mobile enough to do its job properly; to arrest and
prosecute. All we are saying is that the Economic and
Financial Crimes Commission, the Independent
National Electoral Commission, the Police and all
other agencies who are to help the government must
do their job well, bring culprits to book and ensure
that they bring those guilty of looting to book.
But is it appropriate for a new government not to
check the books of the previous administration,
especially when government coffers have been
looted?
At the end of the day, I hope that this probe on
corruption will not end up being a mere illusion;
when you say somebody has looted but establishing
the looting is very difficult. Nobody is saying it is not
good for the country to fight corruption, all we are
saying – and I want to repeat it – is that in
establishing new morality for Nigeria, we must not
cast away justice and fair play in the manner we
investigate all the cases. If we do so, we will subject
Nigeria to a state of irredeemable despair, and that
will be very bad for us.
What then is your take on Prof. Ben Nwabueze’s
stance that certain administrations recorded
corruption of threatening magnitude should be
probed, especially those led by former military
Heads of State, Ibrahim Babangida, Abdulsalami
Abubakar and former President Olusegun
Obasanjo?
I am very convinced that no amount of probes on
Jonathan will establish that Jonathan was a corrupt
leader. He was not a corrupt leader. That is why I am
proposing fairness and justice in this probe. Jonathan
is not going to be found guilty of anything; I am
telling you the fact. And if he (Buhari) says he wants
to extend his probe to other regimes, it will be
ridiculous. That was why Awolowo said any nation that
goes deep into the ‘probe-probe business;’ that
nation is jeopardising the future of its citizens
because it can never get to an end. That was why
Awolowo said he would erect a thick wall between
the events of the past and of the present. All we
need to do is to strengthen the Police. That is all.
If you think Jonathan was not corrupt and will be
off the hook, would you admit that he had people
whose activities should be probed around him?
If they are found guilty, they should be brought to
book. But the way it is going; one governor was on
the entourage of President Buhari to America, he
came back and told Nigerians that one minister
(under Jonathan) stole $6bn. This is a ridiculous thing
to say. $6bn! We are talking of stones; we are talking
of hard currency. All these comments are really
making fun of what President Buhari is trying to do.
Let them base their probes on concrete facts. It is
not possible for a minister of any country to steal
N6bn and stash it away in foreign banks. Which bank
can accommodate that? Any of the banks that aid
corruption abroad will be hesitant to take that kind of
money. I know very well that Buhari’s probe will help
us in this country but trying to implicate people who
are innocent will be bad for Nigeria.
The PDP also said President Buhari should look
inwards and prosecute corrupt persons in the All
Progressives Congress and among those close to
him to set an example. Does this really matter?
Of course (it does)! It will be foolhardy for anyone to
think that there are no corrupt people in the APC.
They also ran government (at the state level) either
as Action Congress of Nigeria or any other party
(before their merger). The PDP was right to say ‘place
your binoculars of corruption probe on your men in
the APC.’
Must the probe start from within the APC?
It can start from anywhere but make sure that you do
a thorough job. If the leaders of the APC are said to
be corrupt and you are investigating them, do a
thorough job.
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